Leaders S4: E01 - JaJuan Smart leads with enlightenment, DEI strategy, & military experience

david_bloxham (00:02.39)
Hold on, hi, how are you?

jajuan_smart (00:04.042)
I'm doing amazing to yourself.

david_bloxham (00:06.166)
very well, very well, yes. It's just coming up to Christmas now. You're in Texas, so I'm in.

shivering in the UK at the moment. So it's good to speak to you and good to kind of have you on board for our Leader Series and know that you've been involved with some of our diversity programmes up to now. So Betty mentioned that it would be great to kind of have you on the show as it were, so I'm sure it'll be a great conversation. So just for our listeners, we've got Joanne Smart here from Macta Limitless. He's the CEO and founder of this organisation. It is an organisation that consults

but it looks at it with a business from a person first, an individual first strategy. So that by, I think the right way would be winning hearts and minds of the people within an organization. I guess Joanne you found that allows you to

to really kind of build much more kind of transformation and cultural change within the workplace rather than it being kind of a box ticking exercise or something that doesn't get the whole kind of buy-in from the whole organization. And that's something that we found really interesting when we've spoken to yourself. But I'm sure you'll be able to introduce what Mac Tub does even best, maybe even tell us what Mac Tub means, because I think that's a good story as well. So we might even start with that one there.

jajuan_smart (01:31.87)
Well, David, how can I follow that up? You did a great job introducing me. But first of all, it's amazing to be here. Thank you for having me on the show and giving me the opportunity to share my perspective on leadership and how it impacted me and how it continues to forge forward in my life. But when it comes to my two blimless, the journey began, I like to say, a long time ago. I won't give you all the nitty gritty details of

david_bloxham (01:32.874)
Yeah. Ha ha ha.

Mm-hmm.

jajuan_smart (02:00.098)
how I came up and everything that transpired. But what I will say is that leadership or the journey for DEI has always been prevalent and that starts with introspection. But for MOT2, it really started and launched off in 2020 when it was a time when a lot of things were going on as we know COVID struck.

david_bloxham (02:00.378)
We'll probably get into that now.

jajuan_smart (02:29.358)
There was a lot of social unrest. And during that time, I began to understand how not only things in society impacts us from an individual standpoint or from a certain group or identity where they may feel the effects more, but how those societal things impact us in our life also affect us in our workplace. You can't just, nobody's a robot. Nobody can just cut off what they have in their personal life and how things are affected.

for them and then go over and just have a glorious work day. It may happen from time to time. There are exceptions, but most of us really feel and we have in that impact. So beginning that thought and going off that sentiment, I began to be approached as the diversity working group chairperson for the company I worked at during that time. I really ingratiated myself in everything.

diversity, equity, and inclusion began getting certifications in different certifications for diversity and inclusion, getting ADR certifications, alternative dispute resolution. So that way, when we have these difficult conversations, I'll have the ability and the know-how in order to kind of navigate the conversation to where it can be more amenable.

people can actively listen to each other, be mindful of the president and the conversation and everything else. But once I did that, I knew what I fell in love with. And I was really helping people, really serving people for greater purpose. And so I started MockTube Limitless in 2020 and we've been growing ever since, helping many industries, agriculture, technology.

health care, group homes, you name it, because diversity, equity and inclusion is in everything that we do and everywhere. So we're just focused on serving our humanity in a really uplifting way to where we can really connect with each other like the purpose of DEI is and create those opportunities for growth and development.

david_bloxham (04:50.838)
That's really, really interesting. And for me, what I found quite kind of interesting there is, you know, obviously you've had, and we'll talk about this, you've had some, some other careers, obviously you've been highly successful in the military, you're highly successful in commercial technology itself. So when you say you really kind of found yourself, was, was this, was that the first time you felt you'd really found this is, this is really what I want to do? Or was this another time, do you think?

jajuan_smart (05:21.098)
Well, as a kid, you always want to play professional sports, but the odds of that is very rare. So this is the only other time that I felt that passion, where I felt like I knew what I was here to do from that standpoint, from a professional standpoint. And so everything else was, you learn the craft, you ingratiate yourself in it, you give it your all. That's part of our core values.

david_bloxham (05:28.779)
Yep.

david_bloxham (05:32.88)
Hmm.

jajuan_smart (05:48.622)
coming from the military is excellence in all we do and something that I adamantly feel we can achieve as human beings with DEI being a way forward to achieve that. But nevertheless, it was definitely something that I really gravitated to, that I really felt and passionate about, and I haven't felt that way since childhood, and that's when I talk about it. I feel like a child sometimes because I have that joy.

and that passion for it and it burns deeply.

david_bloxham (06:21.854)
Yeah, and I think, you know, and do you think that's...

as you talked about the kind of social upheaval and so many different changes that were happening around that time and so many different things, you know, and I think that made everyone kind of reassess where they're where they were at with everything, you know, in terms of family in terms of, you know, culture in terms of society. And do you think you know, that kind of that lockdown moment, you know, where you really had a, you know, we all had to kind of

jajuan_smart (06:32.82)
Mm-hmm.

david_bloxham (06:57.2)
that was a real kind of leader in for you into thinking about this.

jajuan_smart (07:03.406)
Yeah, so it was always things that I've been, or I've observed over my lifetime. And I always was the type of person that always wanted to do what was right, stand up in the face of any kind of inequities, whether that's somebody getting bullied, or whether that's somebody not being treated fairly at work or within my friend group or whatever it was. So.

david_bloxham (07:11.414)
Hmm.

jajuan_smart (07:31.266)
having that time to sit down and reflect and being introspective for myself because it's really a skill that people have to learn because not everyone during that time, to be honest, and let's be honest, everybody during that time didn't reflect because it all depends on your environment and who you surround yourself with. Do you expand yourself from a multicultural standpoint or are you continuing to sit and do the same things that you've been doing, watching the same news channels?

david_bloxham (07:47.646)
Mm.

jajuan_smart (08:01.234)
in taking the same sources and contents, not looking at opposing views, things of that nature. So again, a lot of us may have reflected, but I won't say all of us. And that's with everything is balance and everything, you know, giving flow. But with that being said, for me, it was a time for me to reflect. It was a time for me to sit down and really see how I can make a difference because I'm not the most boisterous on social media platforms or anything else.

because everyone has an opinion. Doesn't mean it's not valid, but everyone has an opinion. And I just choose to do things in a way that best fits me and that I feel like I can give the best of my version of myself. And for me, that was in the workplace. How can I impact the workplace to where we can have multicultural views, where we can have the psychological safety?

david_bloxham (08:47.211)
Yeah.

jajuan_smart (08:58.422)
that really makes us feel comfortable in our environments, give us that sense of value and sense of belonging for being authentically who we truly are. And so that's where I felt like I could make the biggest impact in absolutely sitting down, seeing everything transpire, is really what inspired me to take action in this regard.

david_bloxham (09:18.846)
Fantastic. And obviously, you know, one of the things you mentioned there was the different industries that you work with, you know, and how you bring that people first strategy, kind of the ideology as it were, of backed up to these different industries. And you mentioned that agriculture there and you mentioned kind of technology and obviously very different industries, very different drivers.

jajuan_smart (09:26.083)
me.

david_bloxham (09:43.51)
Do you find different challenges as you come into like, I mean, I don't know if we're talking about agribusiness here or a farm or what the difference is, or if it's kind of food production. Do you find different challenges, different drivers when you look at different types of industries or is it generally the same, like people's issues and problems of working together is and creating a diverse workforce is basically the same wherever you go.

jajuan_smart (09:50.967)
Yeah.

jajuan_smart (10:08.866)
That's a great question. And to answer it, I would say it's kind of both ways, where logistically a lot of the things are different. You're dealing with tech when you're talking about technology as far as computers and networks and security and all these different types of fields within IT. But when you're talking about agriculture per se, then...

david_bloxham (10:32.526)
Hmm.

jajuan_smart (10:37.666)
you're talking about the different water sources and maybe the lack of diversity as far as populace and who's getting the education as far as agrarian lifestyles. So these are different logistics, but what I find is organizationally, it's a lot of it is synonymous with each other. There's not enough different recruiting avenues or met are.

sites or sources that are sought to get those diverse candidates. A lot of group thinks it's when the smallest voice in the room doesn't have an opportunity to really express or be able to, you know, implement their ideals or get them out to the rest of the group.

david_bloxham (11:13.59)
Hmm.

david_bloxham (11:29.494)
Thanks.

jajuan_smart (11:30.63)
So it's a lot of different things that are the same within the organizational standpoint, but when you get into the actual career and the diversity of the fields, then that's where it becomes different and you have to adjust and customize what you're doing in order to meet that audience as opposed to maybe the audience that's in healthcare or different industries.

david_bloxham (11:52.83)
Yeah, yeah. And you talk there about, you know, when we set off this kind of person first, and obviously, I guess that means, by kind of getting this message through to every single level of the organization, but you can't just sit in front of the board and say, right, you need to do things differently, you need to, to buy everybody within the organization. And how do you kind of go about that? How do you have to take that holistic approach? You know, is that is that really by kind of,

every single type different type of role in assessing that.

jajuan_smart (12:27.422)
Yeah, so it depends on what the organization want. It depends on what the organization needs as far as what we'll supply as a contractor or consulting or firm. But when it comes to our approach and how we see best, the best practice will be for us to start at the individual level. Let's start with mindfulness training. Being present, being observant or being aware with setting your intent, being accountable.

Ensuring that you understand how you're feeling and if that feeling is because of something else that transpired are you projecting? What are you doing? Why are you feeling the way you feel in this moment? And then lastly being accepting isn't always tolerant. It's just accepting of the situation But if you know gary comes in you're going every morning gary's mad He's just he's not a morning person. You say hey gary and gary said and

You take offense, you know Gary's like this every morning. Yeah, you know Gary's like this every morning. But yet you're getting mad this particular morning. It's time for you to accept that this is the way Gary is, but why am I feeling this way? Did something happen at home? Did something happen on the way, on the drive? Do I have something on my mind that I'm projecting my anger to Gary?

david_bloxham (13:25.619)
I think I know Gary. I think I might work with Gary. Yeah.

david_bloxham (13:43.112)
Mm.

jajuan_smart (13:50.442)
When God know Gary's just like this every morning, but Gary brightens up for you, this is just who Gary is. It doesn't mean you tolerate Gary. Well, how do you not, how do you do that? Maybe you just don't say hi to Gary that morning, but every other morning you can go and continue to say hi to Gary. And he gives his grunt and you go on about your business and you go on about your day, right? But having that mindfulness intact when you're going into a...

david_bloxham (13:55.617)
Yeah.

david_bloxham (13:59.851)
Mm.

Yeah.

david_bloxham (14:08.649)
Mm. Ha ha ha. Yeah.

jajuan_smart (14:18.638)
trying to transition into DEI lifestyle or organization, or if you are looking to be, if you're looking to really get the wellbeing of your people, which is the inclusion aspect that's often overlooked, how are they feeling both physically, mentally and emotionally? All that impacts how your organization is going to perform and how those individuals are going to perform. But with mindfulness,

We can bring you to a point where, when you're going into these different meetings, when you're talking about these different groups or whatnot, you're present, you're aware, you're setting out an intent to do something coming out of that meeting, whether it's just being aware and educated on different subjects, or whether it's how can I help and assist, it doesn't matter, everything in between. But.

And then you start rolling to the educational aspects. Okay, let's talk about psychological safety. What does that mean for us? How does that impact everyone? How does that create innovation within your organization? How does that spark those minds and get people to that may have been uncomfortable talking to now start talking because now they feel You value them for who they are and that begins with those interpersonal conversations and so forth and so on but

david_bloxham (15:24.299)
Yeah.

david_bloxham (15:36.938)
Hmm.

jajuan_smart (15:41.718)
you can start the educational aspects and you build up from psychological safety to the compassion to employee engagement avenues and every other kind of educational aspect that promotes and incorporates diversity, equity and inclusion and then you continue to build from there. And from an educational standpoint, now you can start really implementing your different programs that...

that promote diversity, like your ERGs, Employee Resource Groups. You can do your, you can build on your committees. That way you know people who are there with the common purpose to really get things moving in the right direction or understanding what DEI is and that it's for everyone. Because it's oftentimes is looked at as an attack on heterosexual white males, period.

david_bloxham (16:16.279)
Mm.

jajuan_smart (16:39.89)
Right? It's always seen that way or conservatively, even on top of that. And so you can understand sometimes why they feel attacked when you, when you start to really break down the I and, and show that it's for everybody because that I really matters that inclusivity aspect, do you feel value for who you are? Do you have a sense of belonging because of who you are? Do you feel a state of

psychological safety where you can express your ideas, of course, tastefully and professionally, of course, but you can express your ideas and not have fear of reprisal words. There was someone saying that it's not, you know, that is dumb or what or not, or what have you, but can you really do those things within a psychologically safe environment? Those are all part of inclusivity. And you just continue to build from there. Build out your different programs.

david_bloxham (17:16.182)
Mm.

david_bloxham (17:28.098)
Because I guess, because I guess, yeah, yeah. Because I guess when you think about it, yeah, yeah. When you think about it, and it kind of almost takes you back to the professional sport idea, it shouldn't be that hard, should it? Because let's say you and I work for the same business, right, we're not from the same.

jajuan_smart (17:36.086)
different, yeah, go ahead.

jajuan_smart (17:47.158)
Mm-hmm.

david_bloxham (17:55.022)
ethnicity or whatever, we come from a different country or have different beliefs. But let's say we work for the same company, right, we both work for GCS, we both work for Macta. That's the link, right, that's the thing that should, if you've got the culture of the company right, then we should all believe in that and the reason I've mentioned professional sport, let's say for instance we both support the same NFL team or the same, you know,

jajuan_smart (17:58.638)
I don't know.

david_bloxham (18:21.658)
soccer team or something like that or like you see in the World Cup, you know, how much the football kind of brings the whole country together all supporting the same teams and that sort of thing. You know, I guess the idea really behind it all is that we can bond over, we could bond over our organization, right? We can believe in that organization and that's

jajuan_smart (18:31.67)
Yeah.

jajuan_smart (18:42.784)
Yes.

david_bloxham (18:44.862)
you know, that's a kind of, there's a binding thing between us, even though there are differences between us, we are bound by the sports team that we support, you know, or the really more kind of, for this conversation, the company that we work for, right? I'm assuming that links quite a lot into the kind of what you learned from the military, because I guess, you know, whoever you are within the military, you have to be on the same side, right?

jajuan_smart (18:45.3)
Absolutely.

jajuan_smart (18:49.356)
Mm-hmm.

Thank you.

jajuan_smart (19:02.827)
Yes.

jajuan_smart (19:08.768)
Yeah.

Correct, correct. And you were just, I was just thinking that when you were making your extremely valid points. When it comes to being in the military, that was one of the things that I found to be the same within the organization and the military is that you join together for a common mission, regardless of whatever your differences are, when it comes down to working on a common purpose and forming that fake links.

david_bloxham (19:29.044)
Mm.

jajuan_smart (19:40.854)
then it's nothing that really, I'm not gonna say that you can't do, but that team will put their efforts and their all into to really ensuring that the mission is met. A lot of times, you're gonna have your people, just like in the military, you're gonna have people that really don't wanna be there or may have trouble adapting. And that's where...

david_bloxham (19:59.017)
Yeah.

jajuan_smart (20:10.494)
I think the military has gotten better with addressing the mental health issue aspects that people have to endure. Because sometimes in these high-paced environments like tech, we know it's high-paced. You're really going because you're constantly developing. You're constantly putting out different programming language. You're selling your products and everything else. So it's always hustle and bustle. But burnout psychologically...

david_bloxham (20:17.047)
Mm.

jajuan_smart (20:40.078)
is a psychological thing and it's when you get burned out for something, they show that it's just as high as someone with high mental anxiety or high mental stress. So that's why you have people, maybe, you know, it's a big job walk off right now, but addressing these different things from an inclusivity standpoint, that's what really helps. Again, everyone, not just one individual or not just a group of individuals, but everyone. And so

david_bloxham (21:04.202)
Yeah.

jajuan_smart (21:09.77)
One thing that you said that I like to sum up succinctly is similarities unite us, so our differences make us unique. I always, I firmly believe that when you have something like a common mission, then you have that similarity and that will unite you in some capacity. And it's up to us to really be able to start being multicultural in our thinking because we oftentimes go back to our homes or our environments where there's more people that look and think just like us in a lot of aspects.

but having that talk with your partner that may be Indian or the one that may be African or the one that may be the white male from my perspective or the person that may be the black woman, whatever it is or whoever they are, you talk to them, you start knowing and you start understanding that, hey, you know what, we got a lot in common. Even the most uncommon people have something in common.

david_bloxham (22:04.426)
Yeah, yeah, that's right. And I think... Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes more than you actually think, if you know what I mean. But I think, you know, what really, really interests me about that is, I guess when it comes down to it, that...

jajuan_smart (22:10.317)
Thank you.

jajuan_smart (22:13.59)
Yeah.

david_bloxham (22:18.034)
What you should also not do therefore is just assume just because we work for the same company That it's all good. You know, you we should be self-critical of our businesses. We should say Well, how can we improve this? Yes, we all Fly the flag and say yeah, we work for gcs or yeah, we work for mac tubs. Everything's great But you know, sometimes people are paying lip service to that as you said sometimes people are obviously not with gcs or mac tab because everyone's super happy all the time, but um, you know

under the covers, you know, looking under the, you know, doing a real audit and really understanding, well, when it comes down to it, is everyone engaged? Does everyone feel included? You know, are we really helping diversity within our business? Because I think, yeah, the idea is that, because we're all working for the same business, we're all on the same side, we're all pushing towards the same goal. But I think unless we, unless we really do kind of challenge ourselves, then we'll never really know and we'll never really improve.

jajuan_smart (23:19.862)
Absolutely. One of the things that as leaders we can do is we can continue to assess our climate. Like you were talking about, look under the hood, make sure that, or ensure that we're not missing things that may be prevalent, that we're listening to our people, that we're doing things that can really shine a light on the gaps within our organizations, not just overlook them.

and continue to do business as usual, but really look under that hood. So assess our environments, assess how inclusive we're being, assess how diverse we're being, are we equitable in our policies, our practices, our benefits, all these things. Next, what you will do is you'll articulate what that looks like for you as a leader. All right, so for me, I want people to really ingratiate them. I want the supervisors.

to have more interpersonal communication with the people that they supervise. In doing so, maybe you have a tool, maybe you have a different list of questions where you can identify, and those questions spark that interpersonal conversation, which you may not know. You'll find out your employees' motivations. You'll find out what entices them. Are they intrinsically motivated? Are they extrinsically motivated? What are their goals? How can you help them achieve some of those goals?

david_bloxham (24:32.546)
Thanks for watching.

jajuan_smart (24:49.17)
all those things by articulating those messages to everybody that you work with or as a leader to your division to whoever is a CEO, whatever. Whatever position you're in, but just articulating that message even as a manager, you know, or as a first team supervisor, whatever it is. Then next you want to set the example. You have to lead by example. You can't say I want everybody to go to these different resource groups.

but you never show up yourself. You have to be able to practice and participate and really ingratiate yourself in there by setting that example. I know as leaders we have a calendar full of meetings. I know it just pains us, but from time to time, monthly, weekly or something, you set aside some time to really get into those different diversity programs that existed within your company, where you type up messages and you show what you're doing.

david_bloxham (25:21.333)
Yeah.

david_bloxham (25:41.986)
Thanks for watching!

jajuan_smart (25:48.746)
be transparent, you'd be vulnerable in that aspect. If you don't know something, ask, you know, in a tactful and respectable manner.

david_bloxham (25:55.57)
Yeah, I think when I've been in those diversity programs myself, I think what's really important as a leader sometimes is to stop being the leader in those moments. You know, when you're on a ledger call, for instance, like when you're working out who owes you money, is probably the worst possible meeting you can go on, then that's where you really have to take on that leadership. Like, who are we going to like send the final demand to? And how are we going to get this kind of sorted out? You know, you've got to take on the leadership capabilities there.

jajuan_smart (26:00.031)
Mm-hmm.

jajuan_smart (26:06.358)
Yep, absolutely. Absolutely.

jajuan_smart (26:12.77)
No.

jajuan_smart (26:18.636)
Yeah.

david_bloxham (26:26.024)
because there's a crisis management, it's money coming in. But I think it's really important when you have those conversations, you know, because, you know, your ERGs, when you sit down, listen to people, you've got to be quite humble and you've got to be more of the individual, you're more of the team member, haven't you? And I think if you have to listen a lot more than in those moments.

jajuan_smart (26:37.367)
Mm-hmm.

jajuan_smart (26:47.594)
Yeah, absolutely. It's one of those things where you show up sometimes and by following, you're actually leading and showing, creating that allyship when you're not familiar with that group or you may not identify with that group. Just showing leadership through actively listening, through just absorbing what the audience has to say. And then really taking that information and trying to implement.

david_bloxham (26:56.698)
Yeah.

jajuan_smart (27:16.458)
whatever, if it's ideals or changes, trying to implement those within the framework of your organization. But also using those people that voice those ideals as resources and capital to be able to implement some of those strategies, because that's where the idea came from. So also giving, again, setting that example, giving credit to the people that actually

came up with the idea of giving them an opportunity to expand upon it and be a part of that project, which would then build different tools and skillsets within them, far as communication, soft skills, and everything else. So where they can now assume some of those leadership roles or have the capability to be promoted and continue to advance their careers. And then what I'll say is lastly,

is you want to enforce and reinforce those measures. You want to make sure that through that inclusive leadership climate assessment and implementing that inclusive climate, you want to make sure you enforce and reinforce those standards. Continue to assess. Continue to articulate. Continue to set the examples yourself. So that way, that permeates throughout the rest of your team, the rest of your organization.

Again, from an individual standpoint, is it very important for us to be mindful of our practices? And at that point in time, you can start seeing the inclusive climate change within your organization. Knock on wood. Right?

david_bloxham (28:55.81)
That's right. One of the interesting things I've found as we've come back into the office a bit more, I think that there are kind of, I don't know what you feel, is that there's, I've found these kind of pros and cons to it. You know, I think sometimes in the kind of the office environment, you get the kind of the...

jajuan_smart (29:02.168)
Mm-hmm.

jajuan_smart (29:10.73)
Yeah.

david_bloxham (29:15.034)
the kind of in jokes and the clicks and you know, certain people like certain people and sit next to certain people. Whereas when we're all working virtually, I don't, I don't think that happened so much. I don't think you get as much, you know, laddish banter, to use a UK term, if you know what I mean. I don't know if you feel that yourself, if you do actually feel that sometimes the virtual workplace is, is almost like a better place to foster diversity, because it just allows people to be

jajuan_smart (29:19.459)
Mm-hmm.

jajuan_smart (29:23.032)
Yeah.

jajuan_smart (29:32.93)
Mm-hmm.

david_bloxham (29:43.638)
themselves in their own home, if you know what I mean. If you've got any, maybe some research on that, where you've seen that kind of come back to the office, different problems arise, I don't know.

jajuan_smart (29:46.806)
Yeah.

jajuan_smart (29:56.938)
Yeah, so one of the statistics that alarmed me, or was alarming for me was, and I can't remember what the exact numbers were, but it showed that women will be promoted less than men once we start heading back into the office, or once people start heading back into the office, because the water cooler,

you know, talk that you were talking about, the banter, the group and the cliques that form, all those things that be prevalent and most of them are male oriented. And so women that choose to stay home and be a part of the home lifestyle while they're continuing to do phenomenal work, they get left behind because of the networking aspect that they'll miss out on,

david_bloxham (30:27.874)
Again.

david_bloxham (30:38.19)
LED, yeah yeah.

jajuan_smart (30:55.722)
We have to be aware of those type of statistics and those type of things because that's where the bias creeps in. And we have to be able to circumvent that, alleviate it all together. And that's through the education or that's being mindful again, being...

david_bloxham (30:58.561)
Yeah.

david_bloxham (31:05.382)
Yeah, and I guess that links into that. It's all about auditing and reordering, isn't it? It's about what's changed. Because what was right in 2021 might not be right in 22 or 23 or whatever, and things do change all the time then.

jajuan_smart (31:15.626)
Yes.

jajuan_smart (31:24.29)
kept correct, correct. And then, you know, there's positives as well because from a mental standpoint, some people didn't like all the isolation. So going back into work gives them an opportunity to.

have that communication, that transactional communication with their colleagues, maybe expressed at different points of view, experienced that multiculturalism. But then again, there are people that are doing extremely well from a mental health aspect working from home. And those are things that we have to consider as organizations. Is that the best route for us to take for those people in creating that equity?

david_bloxham (32:01.866)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

jajuan_smart (32:13.686)
as far as work is concerned and being able to choose your work place so that way you can work the best to your ability. So those are things that we all have to consider.

david_bloxham (32:25.494)
I think it's definitely something that has... I think what's important for me, looking at this, is that it's obvious that in the last few years this is something that's become so much more part of the commercial conversation, right? You know, the people, companies, etc, are talking more about this. I do worry that it's not...

due to everything else that's kind of going on in the world. Now there's so many more worries and problems that everyone has got, cost of living, et cetera, et cetera. It also affects different people of different backgrounds, but maybe it's being pushed down a little bit, you know, in terms of, you know, that that's dealt with. And I think it's really interesting what you're saying. There is that you have to keep thinking about this. You have to keep it front and center. You have to keep asking the questions and

assessing, so we're thinking about cost of living, right? The cost of living, I'm sure, is a big thing in the US, it's definitely a big thing in Europe at the moment, and we know that is probably affecting people from different backgrounds in a very different way, right? You know, it's probably affecting leaders, fortunately for the leaders, slightly differently to the ways it's affecting the people, like to go back to the agriculture in the fields, who really are struggling, you know.

jajuan_smart (33:28.598)
Yeah.

jajuan_smart (33:36.245)
Absolutely.

jajuan_smart (33:41.515)
Mm.

david_bloxham (33:46.43)
I guess that again changes the way diversity and inclusion is kind of looked at because there's different pressures now.

jajuan_smart (33:55.066)
Yeah, you have to be, you have to look at everything from all angles. Um, like you were talking about, leave no stone unturned. That second element of having that inclusive climate, which is, uh, or that first element, which is assessing. And then you, again, you cycle back and you reassess different things, uh, because from a societal standpoint, again, from a societal standpoint, we may not be impacted the same way other.

demographics or different identities may be impacted. The same thing that affects, you know, as far as gender pay, if I'm a male, that's not going to impact me directly for an individual, but how does it impact my household? How does it impact my partner? How does it impact Steve's mom or his little sister or, you know, those things matter when we're looking at it from a individual standpoint.

david_bloxham (34:39.007)
Yeah.

david_bloxham (34:43.242)
day.

jajuan_smart (34:52.782)
How does it impact those around us or people that we work with? If you're, if it LBGTQIAPK plus rights or how does it, how are people being impacted from a societal standpoint where they can't separate that from work. If me and my partner were looking to get married and you're not allowing marriages in my state, how does that impact me from being able to perform at my peak at work?

And so again, one of the things that just going to the meaning of my name, Mahtub, or my name Mahtub, Limbless. Mahtub is Arabic for it is written. So we're saying it is written for us to be limbless. And in doing so we can reach our maximum potential according to Maslow's hierarchy of needs of have that self actualization that can come in many different forms that can come spiritually that can come personally, professionally, but self actualization.

david_bloxham (35:22.546)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

jajuan_smart (35:50.122)
We want people to be able to reach that in a professional environment. How do we do that? We assess and we continue to have those inclusive climates that can really bring that greatest potential out in us as individuals. Like you said, just making sure that we're constantly assessing our environment, listening to the voices of our people, staying aware and apprised through our different ERGs that we may have through our diversity committees.

If we don't have one, building those things, being aware of what would best suit our organization, but also the individuals. Being mindful in our practices. All those things matter when we come to really having that diversity, equity, and inclusion and ensuring that it's for everyone and not just a group of people.

david_bloxham (36:40.226)
So looking forward to the year ahead. Obviously we're at the end of 2022. Probably, I would say not been the best of years. Let's hope for the 23 is a better year because the 20 so far has been pretty dire overall. But no, there's been, this could be good moments as well. But well, yeah, it's presented your perspective, I guess, yes. I kind of, I don't know. Yeah.

jajuan_smart (36:46.254)
Mm-hmm.

jajuan_smart (36:51.795)
Thank you.

jajuan_smart (36:58.734)
It depends on your perspectives too.

jajuan_smart (37:05.074)
Yeah.

david_bloxham (37:08.222)
I mean, my overall kind of impression of the last kind of three years has been, you know, is this really happening? I can't believe it. If you'd predicted this in 2019, I would have said, no thanks. I'll skip to the 2030s really. But hey, I think, I think we're all learning stuff and we're all moving forward.

jajuan_smart (37:16.598)
Blurred. Yeah.

jajuan_smart (37:24.327)
Yeah.

david_bloxham (37:29.378)
as well as staying safe and well and hopefully things improve for culture and societies. What are your main priorities for your business in the next year?

jajuan_smart (37:29.39)
for sure.

jajuan_smart (37:40.818)
Um, to see, and when I say to see, I use that as acronyms S E to continue to serve. Um, I think we all provide service in some capacity and whether you're CEO, fried cook, um, frontline engineer, whatever it is, you serve some capacity. And for us, we want to be able to serve, uh, different organizations and different communities.

in a way where we can really start seeing impact and change. And that leads into the E, which is to enlighten. So again, serving those communities in ways that are best practices, that do empower and inspire your people to be able to perform and feel at their best, to be able to really spread messages of unity as opposed to division.

all those things as far as enlighten. And then lastly is E is Excel. It's in our name, Mount 2 Limits. We want people to excel and be the best version of themselves as possible. So that way it can permeate again throughout the organization and really impact everyone. And you can see and feel that change because energy is palpable. We feel it. We walk into a room. If everybody's saying hi to each other, we're more likely to engage in that activity.

and be part of the conversation, but high with joy and smiles and being jovial on top of that. Not saying it's always going to be applicable, of course, but if we have that environment, then it really will bring out the best and unify us in that aspect. So just continue to excel, be our best individual selves, and create opportunities for that to be prevalent within our organizations.

So that's what we look forward to for the next year. Just to see.

david_bloxham (39:38.25)
Fantastic. Well, serve, enlighten, excel, see. I like that very much. Yeah, I was I was excited to see what the last E was there. So yeah. And, you know, from your side, when you when you go into organisations that, you know, either excelling and doing well, and you look at the leaders, do you think that

jajuan_smart (39:44.77)
Yes, indeed. Thank you. Yeah.

david_bloxham (40:01.078)
that attitude kind of emanates from the best leaders, that you can kind of see that level of seeing, you know, with the people that are running the most successful businesses, do you think it's linked?

jajuan_smart (40:16.298)
I think it depends on the level and it depends on what their mission or intent is at that time. Let's be honest, everyone is in it for the right purposes. Some people want to do it for performative actions, you know, to check a box as we talked about earlier. And then others, they are really about change. They are about that life. They want to be able to see their organizations prosper, see their people flourish.

david_bloxham (40:24.054)
Hmm. Yeah.

david_bloxham (40:32.35)
Yeah, yeah.

jajuan_smart (40:45.694)
see them in great mental health standards when it comes to work, see that they're being able to put forth the equitable opportunities for everyone, ensuring that accessibility is there for both mentally and physically disabled individuals. And so having the big spectrum of that

amount of leadership, it just shows that there's so much that can be done within this practice, within our various industries, within our organizations, that we always have some room to improvement. And one of the things is DEI, that we all can continue to improve upon. It's just like your technology. You're not going to stop growing. You're not going to stop trying to make your product better.

And neither should you stop trying to make your environment better and more productive and more psychologically safe for all your employees and inclusive for all.

david_bloxham (41:46.518)
Brilliant.

Well, Joanne, it's been a great speech today. Thank you very much for your time. I've learned a lot today. It's been a, there's a good, there's been a really good session, I think. Yeah, brilliant. And I will also say, if you've got the video, I really, really like your button hole as well, my friend. That's the flower there. Is that, has the flower got meaning or is it, is it, obviously if we just listen on the audio, you won't be able to see it, but yeah. It's very impressive. I've been looking at it, I've been looking at it with envy all the way through. So yeah, I think.

jajuan_smart (42:04.65)
Oh, thank you. Yes, a little pill. Yes, it's leather.

jajuan_smart (42:13.347)
Yeah.

david_bloxham (42:18.241)
I need to up my game in terms of, yeah, good stuff. It's been great speaking to you. Thank you very much for your time. Happy Christmas, happy new year, and best of luck for 2023. So thank you.

jajuan_smart (42:19.189)
A little rouser than a dazzler.

Hehehe

jajuan_smart (42:29.738)
Yeah. Same to you. And it's been a pleasure being here. I appreciate it. Thank you.

david_bloxham (42:35.618)
Thank you very much.